Out of Curiosity

For those of you who work with or honor gods, what do you find resonates most strongly with your deities, or what are some strange things that remind you of them?

For me, it’s a combination of:

  1. Lightning

The first time I heard of Lucifer being associated with lightning by another of his devotees, I scoffed and blew it off as being utter nonsense. I thought it was just something the person had come up with to make him sound more powerful or cool or whatever. That same night, I was woken up by one of the most intense thunder storms I’ve ever experienced, complete with lightning that lit up the room as though it were midday. There had been no warning of any incoming storms in that area beforehand.

I was shaken enough to go back and do some proper research before disregarding the UPG completely. And wouldn’t you know it, there’s some (speculative) basis of this connection in the gospel of Luke:

And he [Jesus] said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven” (10:18)

 I used to love watching lightning strikes, and being completely in awe of how a single strike could illuminate even the darkest of nights. But I was also acutely aware of how destructive lightning could be, and was always nervous when it got too close for comfort. It was stunning and awe-inspiring, but dangerous all the same, much like a certain angel I know.

 I’ve also mentioned how sometimes I get a buzzing sort of sensation in my left shoulder blade when Lu is around—almost like the buildup of static charge from a storm.


2.  Freshly fallen snow

This doesn’t have anything in scripture to back it up (I don’t think so, anyways), but the bite and even the scent of cold air after a snowfall reminds me of him. It has a certain kick to it that snaps me awake and keeps me alert, not unlike Lu tends to do. The cold chill makes me sharply aware of everything, from the icy kisses on the tip of my nose to the whisper of the winter wind at the back of my neck.

And the stillness and silence, where everyone seems to be too afraid to draw in a breath lest they disturb the tranquility, reminds me of him too. More often than not, he is quiet and hesitant to influence my choices unless necessary.

And looking back on these things now, I find myself rather amused that they have something in common—in both instances, they involve something falling from the heavens to the earth. 

Patronage/Devotional Relationships

[made reblogable by request]

What is the point of devoting oneself to a god?… If gods often have just as many flaws as humans, why follow?… why not just make friends with them? Or are they “above” that?…

Those are perfectly legitimate and important questions, but not ones I can answer for you. Ultimately, you must choose for yourself whether you think devotional relationships are worth your time and effort.

But it depends on a multitude of things—the deity in question, their demands, your boundaries, what you each hope to gain, etc. And yes, their flaws should play into the equation, along with your own moral standards. The way I see it, divine relationships are no different than mortal ones. Would you date someone who has had a troubled past, but seems to truly care for you? Would you work for a boss who is kind of a jerk, but pays well? Would you apprentice yourself to someone who can teach you an incredibly useful skill, even though they are known killers? What if they only killed in self-defense, or as a soldier in war?

If you would not interact with or form a relationship with a mortal whose flaws went against your own personal moral code, then why tolerate a deity who shares the same trait? But similarly, we have to remember that we love and care for our mortal families and friends despite their many flaws, and we can’t judge deities based solely on their faults just because they are ‘divine’.

I think it’s possible to be just ‘friends’ or acquaintances with the gods—in fact, I think that’s a great sort of relationship to have instead of a patronage. You have someone to run to in times of crises, no strings attached—that’s pretty convenient if you ask me. But what if one of your friends started asking too much from you, and too often? Or what if they wanted you to teach them something that required more effort and attention than you were willing for offer someone you hardly knew? What if it went beyond the personal boundaries of just friends?

I can’t tell you why others would choose such a path for themselves, but the latter situation was what spurred my patronage/discipleship. The lessons I wanted to learn required that I see things from Lu’s point of view, that I allow him to have a much more personal access into my life. His lessons weren’t something I could learn just by listening, I had to live them. And in order to trust him enough to allow him to interfere in my life in such a way, our relationship couldn’t just be that of friends.

That being said, I feel as though a lot of those who go looking for such relationships don’t know what they would be getting themselves into, or have a romanticized notion of ‘patronage’—I think what they’re really looking for is the friend relationship. While not all deities may see ‘patronage’ in the same manner either, the fact remains that it is a much more intimate, personal, and uprooting sort of relationship than just being friends with a deity. You’re giving them permission to mold you and shape you as they see fit, and depending on the deity, their ideal devotee may not be necessarily be the type of person you ever wanted to become. 

A Rant, More or Less

I was originally going to write this yesterday, but I realized that I was way too frustrated to get the message across without being potentially offensive and abrasive. So here’s the refined version.

First off, I’m noticing that a lot of the newer pagans (the large influx of Lokeans in particular) are quick to jump to conclusions regarding everyday things. While I won’t argue that sometimes the gods do interfere with our day to day lives, we have to remember that it’s far more likely a mundane cause-and-effect situation—nothing to do with gods or spirits. Be logical guys; think within the plane of existence we live in first and foremost. Lost keys don’t have to have a divine explanation.

I also have a few issues regarding a certain attitude some pagans seem to have regarding their gods or any gods in general. I’ve found that excuses are made for their behavior, or the behavior is disregarded entirely as being too extreme to possibly be the god’s doing. When this behavior crosses the line into abuse, and goes unheeded, I snap. It is my personal belief that anyone, deity or otherwise, should be held accountable for their actions. If that means that another person, devotee or not, needs to call them out on it, then so be it.

“Sure deity X has done some bad things, but they’d never go that far.”

“That’s too cruel, it must not be a god—maybe a violent spirit of some sort”

“Deity Y has never acted in such a manner with me, it must be a lie”

Excuse me, where in any scripture or lore does it say that the gods have a perfect sense of morality? Because I must not be reading the same literature you are—from what I’ve read, the gods are not above being petty and cruel just because they feel like it. They’re not above rape, or genocide, or driving mortals insane.

There was a conversation a while back ago here on Tumblr where many pagans argued that a god would never tell you to do certain things, such as commit suicide. While I agree that the first thing one should do in such a case is get medically evaluated and look for causes outside the divine, I don’t agree with the idea that gods are above such things. There is a Mayan goddess of suicide who may very well tell someone that suicide is an honorable death, without any remorse.

I understand wanting to defend your god—heck, I probably understand it better than most, since my god is the scapegoat of all scapegoats. I get that it’s a scary and uncomfortable thing to have your god be vilified, and yes—my gut instinct would be to defend Lu, but jumping to their defense or making excuses for them without critically analyzing the behavior in question is a reflex born out of our own desires for what we want our gods to represent. Consciously or not, we’re trying to make them more ‘socially acceptable’.

This doesn’t mean we should regard everything bad that’s said about a god as being factual and true. But neither should we ignore the possibility that it might be. Sometimes we find truths in the most unexpected places.

 I personally make it a point to listen and evaluate the accusations that I’m so often confronted with concerning Lucifer. And guess what? A lot of the time, they’re pretty accurate.  He has blood on his hands, he’s manipulative, he can and will use your fears against you, he can definitely be a force of destruction if necessary, and I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s whispered doubts into someone’s ear to the point of insanity. I don’t justify these actions, but neither will I cover them up, because people—especially potential devotees, have a right to know what they might be getting themselves into.

We have to remember that our gods aren’t, and shouldn’t, be solely defined by their misdeeds or heroics. YHVH may have committed atrocities I’m not comfortable with, but he is still a father to his devotees. Lucifer may have given mankind the gift of knowledge, but he still butchered his kin in the rebellion. If you as an individual cannot follow a deity who rapes or murders, even though you admire some other quality of theirs—then don’t. You absolutely have that choice.  But don’t go around ignoring that particular aspect and telling others that your god would never do such things, and putting potential devotees at risk should they choose to follow that deity.

This is why it is so important for potential devotees to do all their research before committing themselves to a deity—and even then, one must realize that there will always be surprises along the way. I wouldn’t ever presume to know Lu well enough to predict his actions, or his intentions for that matter, which brings me to another point. This one-sided view of gods tends to make devotees think that their gods always have their best interests in mind. Consequentially, they’re led to believe that abusive behavior shown by their gods is for their own benefit. This includes emotional, verbal, and possibly even physical abuse.

There’s a difference between going through emotional turmoil for development of the self, and because deity just wants to see if you can live through it. There’s a difference between being threatening and letting you know what you’re getting yourself into. Don’t assume deity knows best, or that they’re doing the best thing for you. You have as much a say in these things as deity, even more so considering it’s your life, your body, your mind, etc. I’d encourage people to be highly critical of their gods, especially those you are devoted to.

TL;DR,

  1. Look towards mundane factors. Don’t assume that everything is due to divine interference.
  2. View the situation with an unbiased eye—is there scripture that backs up the accusations made of a deity? Have there been other similar accusations made by others? Do not project your own feelings about the situation onto scripture—murder is murder, rape is rape, even with a ‘just cause’.
  3. Examine your own UPG—evaluate whether or not your experiences with said deity substantiate the claim in any way. Look beneath the surface, question your deity’s intentions.
  4. Ask the difficult questions. Has the emotional, mental, and physical pain caused by working with your deity been worth the end result? Do they really care about your wellbeing?
  5.  Don’t tolerate abuse, especially from gods. We are not their playthings.

Godbothered

So, I rarely if ever remember my dreams. The ones I do remember are just your everyday sort of dream, with no deeper meanings whatsoever.

So imagine my surprise when I woke up this morning not only remembering my dream, but remembering that the hearth/volcano goddess Chantico had been in it, and she wanted offerings.

WHAT.

Okay, first of all, I’m still in my research phase here. I don’t know the Teteo nearly well enough to be comfortable giving them offerings of any sort, without knowing wtf I’m getting myself into. And I have a feeling offerings to Chantico are only the start—I’m already getting little nudges that I should be looking into a suitable spot for a second altar, because they don’t want to share the one I have currently.

And secondly, I reaaaally want to put this off as just being a normal dream, not a message, because that freaks me out a little too much. I’m not used to such direct, straightforward messages like these—Lu is much more  subtle, and quieter.

But for whatever reason, Chantico and Sarasvati before her had no problem yelling their names into my head (I’d never even heard of Sarasvati before she showed up) and making their wants known. They even managed to get through to me in two particular methods that have NEVER worked with Lu before—meditation and dreams. UGH. 

I’m trying to find a more respectful way of saying, “HEY LADY, TAKING A THIRTY MINUTE COURSE ON ALTAR/OFFERING SETUP TWO WEEKS AGO IN DANZA DOES NOT QUALIFY ME FOR THIS,” followed by some sort of variation of “PLEASE DON’T MAKE ME DIE A PAINFUL FIERY DEATH” because i’ve heard she’s rather vicious, and well…she’s a fire goddess.

Guys, I must have made a deal with the wrong devil

Everyone is so caught up on the idea of Faustian bargains being a tool of the devil’s trade, but it doesn’t work that way with the Lucifer I know.

Well, actually, if someone was offering me something like their firstborn in return for power I would fuck up their lives in order to teach them a lesson too, but that’s not what I’m talking about.

You want fame? Go learn a trade and earn it yourself. Wealth? He’s not going to kill your long-lost aunt who named you sole inheritor of her fortune, but he’ll probably flood your mailbox with job applications. Immortality? Uh, closest thing to it is a long life—he’d sooner give you a ban on junk food than mess with your genetics.

Seriously, remember how I said he was practical? I wasn’t kidding. Now, I’m not saying asking for divine help is a bad thing. It’s certainly understandable when the situation is entirely out of one’s own control. But if you want a deity who will coddle you and give you your heart’s desire in return for your devotion—Lu is definitely not the one to go to.

So I can’t help but laugh whenever I come across the idea of Lucifer leading people astray with his ‘false promises’. I don’t know about his interactions with anyone else, but he’s never ‘promised’ me anything. As a devotee of his who has been taught to forego attachments to material things, who has restrictions in place when it comes to ‘worldly’ pleasures, I can’t see what he could possibly have to offer others that is materialistically tempting, considering the fact that they would have to work for it themselves. The only false promises I see here are the ones that have been invented by others and imposed onto him.

From my experience, he seems to favor the idea of everything in moderation.

Shocker, right? Isn’t Lucifer supposed to encourage and glorify indulging in luxury and sin? There’s that reverse-Christianity mentality again. Do those who follow a Rokkatru path have to reject the nine noble virtues of Asatru and do the exact opposite? Of course not. Why should Luciferianism embrace sins as virtues? Maybe we don’t see them as being bad exactly, but it doesn’t mean we have to automatically believe overindulgence in them is ‘good’.

Especially if we consider the idea that Lucifer was once the highest ranked angel, second only to God himself. A role like that requires trust, it is something that is earned through one’s actions and deeds—so, he must have believed that they were doing something right, otherwise why not rebel from the moment of his creation? Why does his rebellion have to mean that he rejects everything and anything that Christianity deems good and virtuous?

Let’s say I have a job in a company I am very content with. I agree with a lot of their policies, and I believe in what the company stands for. I love my work, but I can’t stand my boss. Maybe I thought he was a cool guy in the beginning, but later on realized that I don’t agree with how he’s running things—the company I loved is slowly being corrupted into something else entirely, and the employees are not being treated as they should. I’m not the only one who thinks this way, either. So I go and tell my boss exactly what I think, and he fires me.

Well, screw that, maybe I’ll just go start my own company.

It doesn’t mean I hate the previous company. It doesn’t mean I hated my old job. It doesn’t mean I’m going to run my company on ideals that are completely opposite that of the previous one. But my ex-boss and his loyal employees might see things that way, especially if they feel threatened.

Their business has over a thousand employees, with a solid reputation amongst their customers and clients, while my own newly founded company has only a handful of employees and no reputation to speak of just yet.

So when the mudslinging begins as a consequence of feeling threatened, guess who people are going to flock to and believe?

And thus we get all these skewed concepts like the Faustian bargain, and vices as virtues, and double standards—oh goodness, the double standards are the worst, I think. Selfishness and pride are okay when it’s YHVH we’re talking about, but not Lucifer? Well fuck.

Here’s an idea—how about we focus on our own faiths instead of trying to demonize someone else’s?

A message from magic-is-ahead


What exactly do you mean with Luciferian? Referring to Lucifer the roman god or the christian interpretation? How does it go along with being a pagan? Just curious (-;

Let’s get one thing straight here: Luciferianism is not reverse Christianity. This is what prompted the whole debacle yesterday, because people assume that we have merely switched Lucifer and YHVH’s roles and kept the Christian worldview the same, which is not the case. You see this a lot with Satanism as well, with people who have not done their research thinking that members of the faith see satan as the ‘good guy’ and everything that the bible condemns as evil being their ‘good’. No, this is wildly inaccurate and a big part of the reason why there is such a misinformed bias  and prejudice against our faiths. We do not have to be monotheistic, or believe in the creation story, or hold to anything else that goes along with the metaphysical framework of Christianity. Luciferians can be monotheistic, polytheistic, atheistic—you name it. What we share, however, is our perspective on the figure of Lucifer—whether we view him as a god or a symbol is irrelevant.

My particular type of Luciferianism focuses more on the Christian Lucifer, in his fallen angel aspect, but there are other Luciferians out there that look towards Roman god of dawn, or similar archetypal ‘lightbringer’ figures, as the cornerstones of their faith.

But while I am only devoted to one god, I am also polytheistic and believe in the possible existence of many gods. Many pagans refer to this sort of relationship as a ‘patronage’, which I have taken to using, albeit in a slightly different manner than what a lot of pagans see it as (for more info, see my post on my definition of the word Patronage). A lot of my practice is pagan in nature, including spirit and shadow work. I have worked with other deities before, and am currently looking into working with the Teteo of Mesoamerica.

I hope that helps to clear things up slightly. And thank you for phrasing your question respectfully.

If you’re going to call it ‘spiritual warfare’, don’t romanticize it

[Warning: I do mention physical war-related violence briefly]

Read More

So-called ‘Luciferians’

[This is a response to So A Luciferian Walks Into a Chatroom, but I went a little off topic, hence separate post instead of a reblog. This is not directed toward AViewIntoYourWorld.]

Before I get into the nitty gritty of this, I want to restate that I take everything said about Lu from others with a grain of salt—both people like SleepsWithDeities and the Luciferians I’ve met here on tumblr. I have trouble getting myself to accept that I’m not just making things up, without throwing others and their experiences into the mix as well. But despite my skepticism, I’m also extremely protective of my faith, largely in part because of how it’s perceived by the masses.

I take pride in my faith, and to have someone claim to ‘represent’ it in such a manner as the one linked above makes me angry. Not just because they’re obviously trolling, but because even if they were being sincere, there’s more to being a Luciferian than using it as a bragging right or claiming the label to act superior.

Yes, Lu and by extension his devotees are prideful creatures, but there’s a difference between pride and conceit. There’s a difference between calling yourself his devotee and acting like it. And that’s not even specific towards Luciferians—I could just as easily say that there’s a difference between calling yourself a Christian and acting like one. Now clearly, not all members of a faith are the same, but there are qualities which we strive for that are indicative of our faith.  

And to be quite honest, the only luciferian-like quality I saw throughout this conversation was the question regarding doubt, but even that was not sincere in its cause. It was aimed to hurt and confuse, for the purpose of making SleepsWithDeities seem more credible than they actually were and raise them onto a pedestal of authority. Doubt and skepticism can be good things, but not in this context.

Let’s pretend this person wholeheartedly believed what they were saying. Let’s even pretend it was plausible.

All I’m seeing is talk. The message seems to be that they have this special relationship with all these deities, two of which are extremely goal-oriented and purpose driven, but have no other objective than to be their human pet. It’s as though they are content with claiming the faith in name only, without the work that comes along with it. Of course not every Luciferian has to do His work, and I’m not saying that it’s impossible to interact with him without being ‘of use’ to him, but using his name only to belittle others or gain prestige is not going to get you on his good side. And when enough people start to do this, it paints an incorrect portrait of all Luciferians.

I don’t say this to try to exclude others from my faith, or to assert that I know better than anyone else. I say this because it’s people like this that have led me onto this route of work—I end up having to clean up after their messes, as they reinforce the stereotypes and misconceptions I’ve been trying so hard to break down. I haven’t been doing his Work for four years, putting in the effort and devotion necessary despite the sacrifices and trials, for someone to claim to be a representative of my faith and subsequently invalidate everything I’ve worked for.

But even more importantly, this not only reflects badly on me as a member of the belief system, but on the focus of my faith as well. It reflects badly on Lu. I bust my ass trying to be a decent reflection of his ideals—to act in a manner befitting of one of his disciples, to earn the right to call myself his student. I will not remain silent when someone declares themselves as one of Lu’s own, yet does nothing but besmirch everything he stands for.

I was excited to find that one of my favorite Christian artists recently released a new album. Something I appreciate about her songs is that they aren’tblatantly Christian, with mentions of Christ or YHWH every other line. Instead, they’re songs of love and devotion that could just as easily have been written for any other deity.

For the most part, I’m able to forget that this is Christian music. I use a lot of her songs as devotionals to Lu, without worrying about their original context.

But then I came across one song in particular that shocked me right out of that mindset. I couldn’t even listen to it in its entirety at first because it brought up such strong imagery of the type of faith I cringe away from, a way of viewing faith and deity as an obligation rather than a choice.

My mind automatically jumped to the conclusion that this song praised the concept of blind faith—of loving a god because you’re told to. Of forcing oneself to fake devotion until it becomes real.

But then I went back and listened to it again, all the way through this time. I was attempting to listen to the words that were left unsung, the meaning behind the lyrics that I had previously taken at face value.

And to my surprise, I found myself completely enraptured.

This isn’t a song about blind faith, but a song of confession. It’s not about trying to create a love that doesn’t exist, but admitting to oneself of a love that has been denied, hidden away from the rest of the world. It’s about a devotion that may not be easily understood by others, or even mocked or ridiculed.

It’s about living my faith and loving my god without worrying what others have to say or think.

But it’s not just about me. It’s about anyone who is devoted to a deity, whose faith is outside of the scope of what is considered ‘normal’. This song speaks for those of us who hold relationships to the divine that others may not comprehend, those of us who are connected to gods that others fear or abhor—for those of us who can’t help but adore our gods, we who live and breathe their words and deeds.